My brother has been put out "for lack of attendance". This changes things for me. I don't feel like I can be part of the meeting anymore. I'll write about it tonight. I am very upset by this.

I found an interesting write up on wikipedia about Plymouth Brethren here.

Since I wrote my last post on this here "excommunicated blog", a lot of things have changed. I've rekindled some relationships with family members that had been broken for over 15 years. This is and was a very sad thing. I'm very happy about getting back in touch with my loved ones. No matter how angry I was, I missed them. I love those family members.

Since I've started talking to my family again, I've been shown that a lot of my views of the meeting are tainted. I'm not surprised at all. I was very bitter when I broke away and I tended to look at things as harsh as they could possibly be. I've also found that a lot of the "rules" I fought so hard against, have been softened over the years. The "brethren" are not the freaks I made them out to be. Sure there are still difficult personalities and clashes with rebellious teenagers like I was... but overall I feel bad for being so judgemental of the meeting.

I don't think I'll ever be part of it like I once was, but I do hold a lot of their truths dear to me. I do think it is the right place to be for many. I hope that I can take my daughter to sunday school there and she can learn the stories and songs that I learned when I was little. So I guess what I'm coming here to say is: it's not all bad. In fact, there is a lot of good (more than I can find anywhere else!) and I hope my views have not tainted anyone against "the meeting".

This is my story, not any one else's.

First time here? Read from the bottom up.

Q & A

Q: Was there any gender bias in these times of "discipline"? Like, were you punished during these situations because you were female, or were the men punished just as equally?

A: It does seem to me that women are treated a bit more harshly than men BUT that could be just because I've experienced it first hand and I can't remember any men who were "put out". In theory both men and women would go through the same "discipline".

Q: Were both your parents involved with the "meetings" from the very beginning of their marriage or did one convert over?

A: My mom converted when she was 10. (Her father joined up the whole family, so I’m not so sure she had a choice.) My dad was born and raised in the meeting. This is a good question because even though my dad is the sweetest guy on the whole planet he knows nothing else and it makes it hard to relate. He just wants everyone to get along. Sometimes my mom can be more down to earth. I think that is because she remembers a time before "meeting". She misses Christmas.

Q: Did your father turn you in to the elders in a sincere effort to do the right thing? Or did you, in your effort to make things right, turn yourself in?

A: I knew he had to tell them. There was never a question in my mind that he might not. I may have asked him to do it for me. The second time around I did things a little differently but I’ll get to that.

done with Q&A

Yep! We don’t celebrate Christmas! Can you believe it! Such a loving Christian holiday and no joy of presents allowed! The reason behind this is that Christmas is actually a pagan holiday that Catholics dressed up as their own so as to have an easier time converting whatever people they were taking over. At least that’s what I’ve always been told. Technically birthdays are pagan also but thankfully the powers that be skipped that detail. We always got lots of presents on birthdays. Probably to make up for the lack of Christmas.

We/them (this is getting confusing because technically I’m not them anymore) believe that remembering Jesus’s death is more important than his birth. We don’t really know what day he was born on (it wasn’t December 25th) and he asked us in the bible to remember his death and his resurrection. We never read about him celebrating his birthday. But we do know he was 33 when he died so I guess they kept track of years somehow.

Discipline

“Discipline” consists of being “put away from the Lord’s Table” meaning you can’t participate in the “breaking of bread” or communion ceremony (though they would never call it a ceremony). This isn’t that bad, since I’ve always felt I communed with God in my own way, whether I drank their nasty wine or not. There is something to be said about being with other Christians when you worship but that’s something I haven’t really resolved yet.

Discipline also means you must come late and leave early for all meetings.

The normal meeting schedule is:

Sunday: Sunday school, Reading Meeting, Breaking of Bread, then you go home and come back at night for Gospel
Tuesday: Prayer Meeting at night
Thursday: Reading Meeting at night


Lots of random meeting are scheduled because a special guest might be in town and has slides from their recent trip to Peru or maybe it’s the 2nd Sunday of the month and everyone gets together for a big pot luck feast. There are young people get togethers and Sunday School pic nics at the park... etc etc... There must be lots of healthy gatherings since you cant’ really go out and hang out with people outside the religion. Anything outside of the meeting community is considered “the world” and therefore a big trap set by the devil, but I digress...

Discipline also means that you cannot socialize with anyone outside of your immediate family. No eating, no talking, no driving together or being seen together anywhere. This also applies to anyone whom you might want to call your boyfriend or your partner in crime. He is also under discipline and you should not be seen together until you are accepted back into “fellowship”.

Getting accepted back into “fellowship” is a magic secret process that the elders decide together amongst themselves. They’ll have you believe that they are led of the Spirit to make these decisions but I’ve found it has a lot to do with how much you grovel and whether or not you are pretty. The prettier you are, the more punishment you need because everyone knows pretty people have less self control. The devil uses pretty people like pawns.

Usually after a few months of groveling and general submission the “loved” someone has a spirit of repentance and THEN that loved one will be welcomed back to the fold with open arms. This could take a long time or a short time. For me it was one step forward, three steps backwards.

Here I go, breaking it down:

I was raised in a very exclusive “separatist” Christian environment. It’s really hard to explain if you weren’t brought up in the middle of it. There are some sites like this and this written by my Uncle... I'm sure there are more but so far everything I've found is very poorly designed and pretty much unreadable.

The nuts and bolts are basically this:

1. We are humble visitors to this planet waiting for the day when we will be with God in heaven (the rapture).

2. They way you get “saved” (secure your afterlife in heaven) is pretty much the same as with any other Christian belief: ask for forgiveness, believe that Jesus Christ, God’s son died on the cross for your sins and Jesus will come into your heart and your eternity will be sealed in heaven. There is no getting “unsaved”. (Which is a relief to me since sometimes I get superstitious and worry about such things)

3. While on this planet it is important not to give in to the devil and allow yourself to enjoy anything of the “flesh.” The “flesh” meaning anything that gives you pleasure and takes away from your “enjoyment of Christ.” Things of the “flesh” could be music, dancing, telling too many funny jokes, fashion, school sports, blogging, masturbating, premarital sex, adultery, lusting after Victoria Secret models, loving your fast car, becoming a rock star etc etc...pretty much anything under the sun that makes you happy. Of course it’s not put forth in those words but you get the drift.

4. We meet in regular buildings with as little pomp and circumstance as possible. The meek shall inherit the earth... Which means no church steeple, no stained glass windows, no choir, no organ music, no pastor, no pews etc etc. I think this was a side effect of Martin Luther and all the scrapping of anything Catholic.

5. The “breaking of bread” (communion) is not structured. It is very much like the Quakers or Shakers of old where anybody (except women) can be “lead of the Spirit” and stand up to read a verse, speak a bit or call out a hymn number for everyone sing. There is no time limit and these meetings could conceptually last forever but they usually have a funny way of ending right after an hour or so. I guess the Spirit likes things timely.

So how could all these good rules go so wrong?

Well, it depends on how you look at it. Whenever you gather a group of people together there will be those who seek power and those who gossip and those who lead double lives and cause trouble. If you listen to my parents you will go to “meeting” for God and not the people and thus be saved from any of the trouble I’ve got hung up on.

But if you’re me and you actually believe everything above and then you fall in love and you give in to your animal instincts like the weak human that you are, then things get complicated. See main blog for the rest of the story.